Book Club: How Children Succeed, Conclusion
October 8, 2012 § 32 Comments
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Well, parents, here we are at the end of our very first Book Club book. Before we get started, I want to say thank you to all who read and who commented, I got so much more out of this book because *you* were here to talk about it, analyze it, and apply it to your own life, along with me. Thank you.
The last two chapters of How Children Succeed were bittersweet, did you think that? I found myself getting weepy in more than one section – wanting to give Kewauna Lerma a huge hug because she is working so hard to overcome her background and her education, especially considering her attitude toward her own learning. I want to hear about where Kewauna ends up, because I just know it’s going to be somewhere, doing something wonderful. Tough quotes researcher Carol Dweck, how she found that “”students who believed intelligence was maleable did much better than students who believed intelligence was fixed.” Kewauna seems like she believes it, and that gives me a tremendous amount of hope, both for education and for kids who don’t have access to many advantages.
I found myself equally as moved by the thought of high-achieving kids choosing unfulfilling careers because they are afraid of taking risks. Tough writes, ”I often felt I stumbled upon a pervasive, if still somewhat inchoate, anxiety with within the contemporary culture of affluence, a feeling that something had gone wrong within the traditional channels of American meritocratic pursuit, that young people were graduating from our finest institutions of higher learning with excellent credentials and well-honed test-taking skills and not much else that would allow them to make their own way in the world.” Surprisingly, he goes on,”There are fewer entrepreneurs graduating from our best colleges these days; fewer iconoclasts; fewer artists; fewer everything, in fact, except investment bankers and management consultants.”
How did you feel about the conclusion? And what about the book will stick with you?
And now…. I’m very excited to announce the next Parent Book Club book: child psychologist Madeline Levine’s Teach Your Children Well – the subtitle “Why values and coping skills matter more than grades, trophies or ‘fat envelopes’” truly says it all! The New York Times‘ Judith Warner says about the book: “This message — that, essentially, everything today’s parents think they’re doing right is actually wrong - is the most noteworthy take-away from… this book.” Sparking tons of conversation, Teach Your Children Well’s first #PBC chat will be Monday, October 22 at 8:30 PM CST. I hope you will get the book and join us!
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Tonight’s Talk: Kewauna Lerma, a young woman in the book from an extremely disadvantaged background who works her way to college, tells Tough: “No matter how overwhelming it is, no matter how exhausting it is, I’m not going to give up,” she said. “I’m never the type to give up. Even when I played hide-and-go-seek when I was little, I would be outside till eight o’clock, until I found everyone. I don’t give up on nothing, no matter how hard.” He contrasts her efforts with his own – how he dropped out of Columbia to pursue a variety of different things, but still encountered a great deal of failure and dead ends – and still ended up a success. What is the path for success in our ever-changing 21st Century world? Are there lessons from this book you will take home with you? If so, what are they?
I enjoyed the book. Mostly, I was inspired by stories like Kewauna’s and kids who’ve somehow figured out that wanting something badly can make up for a lot of other advantages. I’d like to help my kids and others feel that fearlessness. But I felt like things concluded in a hurry without assessing the values that had been explored. And I still wonder whether kids like Kewauna are like little Oprahs — exceptional sorts who are born with more drive than most of us. Should they be the examples for all disadvantaged kids? Not sure.
Hi there Wendy! Yes, I felt the same way about wrapping up the conclusion. I didn’t really think about Kewauna in that way, that’s a really good point – she most likely has an exceptional amount of grit.
My takeaway, however, was more that “success” and “failure” are kind of conditional. What did you think of his story about dropping out of Columbia? What to make of that?
He certainly has taken an interesting path to get where he is. Maybe the key really is to build up self-reliance and perseverance in kids so that they find their (meaningful) way in life, no matter the challenges along the way. Of course that is far easier in some families than in others!
I certainly meandered. A lot! I was one of the straight-A, do-it-all types who got through college in great shape. Then once I got to New York, I kind of fell apart. It takes a *tremendous* amount of grit to make it as an artist in New York. .. And an aptitude for living in poverty
I know that in my own family some siblings were far bolder than others in finding their “true” path. But if what you need to do is be financially secure and an educated example for the rest of your family then getting there in a hurry is okay too, no?
Exactly. It’s kind of conditional.
I recall the phrase – success (or ‘luck’) is where preparation and opportunity meet. But do they always meet? Not necessarily. Kewauna is preparing and that’s admirable – but not a guarantee. Some people cannot define the opportunity they’d most like to find. Without a passion, without knowing what they are truly capable of . . . they’ve not developed a range of skills or had enough of a range of experiences to even fathom how they’d like to prepare. This argues for broad education and broad exposure rather than narrowing our experiences (and those of our children) early on. Generalists vs specialists. How likely that the specialists preparation will exactly meet with that special opportunity?
I’m reminded of the chess kids, sing4two!
That a keen observation. The kids are so young! It’s so hard to know what you want to do, where you want to end up – that’s why I think this book really works best for the kids who are on the two extremes. The hothouse kids who have the potential do so much with what they’ve been given, and the kids who need college very, very badly to get out of their situations. What do you think?
I agree Holly. In the end, I still feel like all kids need those traditional “moral” values but would also benefit from some method of helping them find that quality inside them that will push them to make things happen for themselves. I only wish I knew better how to do that across the board.
Yep. I was thinking he would get into that more. How do we transfer the grit? It’s more than letting kids get up themselves after they fall down. What are the techniques?
For all of you out there reading, please feel free to jump in at any time! You can comment or reply to what’s already been said, or start a brand-new thread. Don’t be shy!
Somewhere in all of this, I believe, we need to teach our children to “know thyselves.” What makes their heart sing? Their eyes sparkle? It may change over time (meandering) or it might be an ongoing drumbeat sounding in their ears from an early age. The key is to learn to be still, to look inward, to identify these things within oneself, IMO. Follow your zest and the money will follow? If our children have imagination, creativity, a realistic sense of themselves and their talents, and courage – I think this still might be the best path to personal happiness (aka success). Courage might take several forms – close relationships, financial stability (or a family that won’t let you go hungry), a marketable skill to fall back on, etc.
Spill the beans, Holly. Is Madeline Levine going to teach us how to teach “grit”? Assuming it’s as valuable as she and Tough think it is ….
Ha! That’s why I chose this book next!!
Yes, Levine does discuss some specific things to do to engender inner success, like sing4two talks about – an inner gauge for our children to know themselves and follow that lead instead of one that’s been laid out for them.
Levine talks about how she mentioned to her therapy patients – many of them kids in their teens – that all their parents wanted was for them to be happy – and how the kids would laugh bitterly. They didn’t believe it for a minute.
Interesting. True confession: I very much want my kids to be happy. But I sure hope they find that happiness pursuing a passion rather than settling for the easiest thing and find it while not living with me into their forties. Gulp.
Parents just know it’s hard to be happy and hungry at the same time. They don’t call them “starving” artists for nothin’.
Well, exactly. There’s happy, then there’s totally dependent!! hahaha! One of my sons has been told plenty that he is “smart,” and now I realize that is the worst possible thing to do. I want my kids to be happy, and yet I want to be sure they have the skills to know what it takes to be good at something. And to be proud of working hard and going out and getting it. It’s a fine line. Am I a tiger mother?
Well, sing4two, you make an excellent point, and this is something that keeps me up at night: a friend who is parenting teens attended a seminar recently where the expert said that generation y kids will refuse to do something unless they feel there’s a good reason for it. They want to be included in the decision-making process. ???!! My ‘grit’ alarm goes off on that one.
Overall, I think it’s a very important topic and a very important discussion to have. My mother reminded me that she and my father got “character” report cards right along with their grades, and they were just as important as the letter grades. I think we’ve lost a bit of that reverence for character traits. ??
I agree. Why are we afraid of judging character these days? Is it a baby boomer thing?
I’d also like to mention that I was troubled by the contrast between the hothouse kids’ accommodations for learning differences and the disadvantaged kids (who were basically not allowed to have learning differences). I’m not sure who the winners are here, when grit is being valued so highly, but it seems ridiculous that both approaches exist in systems that are trying to espouse the same core valuesvv
I was a little troubled by that, too, which is why I felt I had to mention how hard Kewauna worked and how Tough himself dropped out of college. How Steve Jobs dropped out of college. How words like grit and success and failure depend on where you stand.
Character is important and skills can be learned. Too often the education system shuttles kids toward their strengths and ignores the other mutli-faceted sides of the person. Or lack of funding precludes even offering the opportunity – e.g. playing a musical instrument, art, etc. I have also heard the research that people who believe intelligence can be learned vs bestowed are much more likely to try things. Their learning doesn’t necessarily come from failure but from multiple “trying.”
Yes! My friend just told me today about the amazing choreographer Twyla Tharp – how she said that she failed 99% of the time – but most all of that was alone in her dance studio. That sounds more like try, try again than failing.
That I like! Horrible for the old college résumé, right?
For those that never have to try and try again, for those that make money from Day 1 out of school, for those that never struggle . . . there is a lack of compassion & understanding. There is, I think, the belief by those successful people that “I must have something that you don’t” or “I worked harder” when in fact that might not be the case. Public policy beware! Utlimately, the ability to relate to and communicate with other people will bring us the most happiness. The most success. Without people skills it’s hard to be successful! So here’s to grit and trying!
Thank you thank you thank you for being a part of the very first, real-time online Parent Book Club! You guys are amazing!! We will be back in two weeks with “Teach Your Children Well” – I do hope you will join us!! Will you? Let’s do it!
looking around a found Deborah Meier’s response to Paul Tough ‘s thoughts on teaching kids ‘ character
http://tinyurl.com/cokamw5